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BY Kay Ebeling
Since reading about Anthony Rodrigue, who admits he raped 5 or 6 boys a year in the 22 years he was a priest, I keep getting this image in my head. The area of California where the Catholic Church transferred Rodrigue from parish to parish was small inland barren southern desert towns, like Calexico and El Centro, and even Ontario was still rustic in the 1970s.
I keep seeing boys on bikes, summer vacation, riding around bored in the heat, but here's an activity to fill their empty days. At the Catholic Church there is a horny sucker of a sexy guy, and to hear pedophile priest Tony Rodrigue describe it, wherever he went, young boys would just throw themselves at him. A nine year old demanding oral sex, a 14 year old who was always wanting to screw him in the buttocks.
How did he get transferred instead of convicted? “Next thing you know they lying for you," Rodrigue says, in the transcript of a May 1977 lie detector test, where he goes from admitting to the crimes to shocked denial, so many times the Examiner says: “I'll guarantee you one thing, if somebody's face was between my legs, there is no way in hell I'd forget it."
Below are excerpts from that transcript. I pipe in now and then with comments (ALL CAPS) As you read, remember this test ended up being invalid. Rodrigue admitted to taking a small nip of whisky with breakfast that morning, and after each bathroom break his answers got more and more wobbly. Still, the answers reveal insight into the brain of a pedophile priest.
As recently as the May 1997 lie detector test, Rodrigue seemed to have no sense of the damage he caused. He wonders why he even should:
THE EXAMINER: Then what happened with that incident? Were the police called in?
MR. RODRIGUE: No. But I think the police were involved, but nothing really happened to me because that -- next thing I know, "They lying for you. They lying for you." They were lying for me, I think. I didn't know anything about (inaudible). And I went to -- to another parish. And then I went for treatment back in Boston for four months.
The Examiner asks “So how many does that add up to? I don't know what year you became a priest.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, you're talking about twenty- -- 22 years. So times five.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. So of those have you ever sat down and talked to any of those boys?
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Have you ever wanted to sit down and talk to them?
MR. RODRIGUE: I don't know. I don't know what you mean by that question.
THE EXAMINER: Did you ever want to sit down and tell them that you didn't mean to hurt them, that it was just this demon inside you, this need for sexual release, sexual contact, human contact that caused it to happen?
MR. RODRIGUE: No, I don't think I ever wanted.
*************
EXCERPTS FROM THE TRANSCRIPT CONTINUES:
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MR. RODRIGUE: It should be 1972, I guess.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. What happened with that incident?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, that was interesting because, uh, it really had nothing to do with child molestation except some sort of a vague accusation.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: And of course I -- the facts were that all I had done was lost my temper in religion class and yelled at somebody and some mother got angry at me and -- or grandmother was angry at me, and --
EXAMINER: What was the gist of what she was saying? You were touching somebody? Or somebody was touching you? Or --
MR. RODRIGUE: -- It was so vague. And yet I had my problems in a sense,.
THE EXAMINER: Did the woman claim you had been touching some of the children in your catechism class or -- or your --
MR. RODRIGUE: Outside class, I guess.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. At the rectory?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
************
MR. RODRIGUE: I went to say Mass over there at the Heber church, they said, "Oh, did you hear what happened?" I guess they'd -- they arrested the altar boy leader and guess he was doing all sorts of nasty things, see.
THE EXAMINER: Uh-huh.
MR. RODRIGUE: And then I says, "Oh, my God. They're going to blame me for all this, this stuff."
THE EXAMINER: And did they?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
THE EXAMINER: They said you were doing it too?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Then what happened next? Or what happened with that incident? Were the police called in?
MR. RODRIGUE: No. But I think the police were involved, but nothing really happened to me because that -- next thing I know, "They lying for you. They lying for you." They were lying for me, I think. I didn't know anything about (inaudible). And I went to -- to another parish. And then I went for treatment back in Boston for four months.
THE EXAMINER: What kind of treatment?
MR. RODRIGUE: Psychological treatment.
THE EXAMINER: For?
MR. RODRIGUE: Psychological testing and all kinds of things to find out what was going on.
ME: PEDOPHILE PRIEST TONY RODRIGUE TOO HAS RECOVERED MEMORIES:
MR. RODRIGUE: -- outside of Boston (inaudible). Well, I went through it. Discovered a problem which I couldn't describe was hanging, which was the biggest thing in my life because there was this memory that I had that came out of this test. And when I was ten years old, 10 or 11 years old, I --
THE EXAMINER: You got molested?
MR. RODRIGUE: No. No. I had been masturbating a little bit, and my mother caught me-
THE EXAMINER: That's normal.
MR. RODRIGUE: I know. But my mother caught me, and I went through tremendous embarrassment.
THE EXAMINER: Oh, I see.
MR. RODRIGUE: And then I was embarrassed by my brothers in school. And that was locked out of my memory for all those years that I couldn't remember it, see.
ME: OH POOR PEDOPHILE PRIEST SO TORMENTED BY HIS MOTHER
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Did something happen in Ontario?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, yeah, that's where the case came up -- came back (inaudible) --
**************
ME: HE WAS PLAGUED BY A 16 YEAR OLD PROSTITUE
THE EXAMINER: Okay. What happened with this person that solicited you for sex? How old was that person?
MR. RODRIGUE: About 16.
THE EXAMINER: Okay, one of your parishioners solicited you.
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Was there actual sexual intercourse, just oral copulation? What -- what occurred?
MR. RODRIGUE: It was oral sex on my part.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. the police never got involved in that.
MR. RODRIGUE: Not in that one. Then there was this other 16-year-old.
THE EXAMINER: In Ontario?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: He solicited you too?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, vaguely. And you know --
THE EXAMINER: They're a walking hormone at that age.
MR. RODRIGUE: But anyway, that's the one that wrote a letter.
THE EXAMINER: To you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Then some to the courts.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
*******
ME: A 16 YEAR OLD SEXUAL AGGRESSOR AND BLACKMAILER:
MR. RODRIGUE: -- Leave a hundred dollars there. And I crumpled it up. That's sick. So that's the one I needed the police.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Because you guys had had sex, but then he tried to blackmail you. Shame on him.
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: You gave him oral sex.
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: And then he tried to blackmail you.
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
****************
ME: HERE’S A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TREATMENT AT THE CHERRY VALLEY PARACLETE FACILITY?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, when I got back --
THE EXAMINER: Uh-huh.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- to Ontario there I was still distraught. So I then -- I went -- got -- got put on under a psychiatrist --
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- treatment center. And the police hadn't got involved yet, see.
ME: A LITTLE DENIAL, ANYONE?
MR. RODRIGUE: Someone sold him some drugs so the police could arrest him and so they could harass him to confess to something that never took place.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, on Sunday morning John Doe was crawling all over me, you know. And, "Bite my neck. Bite my neck," you know.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Who's John doe now? You have to explain --
MR. RODRIGUE: He's the 11-year-old there.
THE EXAMINER: How many times did this kind of activity occur where he was crawling all over you? But two and two makes four. I mean, his hormones were going and got yours going? How many times would you guess?
MR. RODRIGUE: That I can't be sure, but not too many times.
THE EXAMINER: Fifty?
MR. RODRIGUE: No, not that many.
THE EXAMINER: He says 150; how close is that to the truth?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, closer to ten percent.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. How -- what number are you comfortable with? 20? 25? 30?
MR. RODRIGUE: Not that many, no.
THE EXAMINER: 15? 20?
MR. RODRIGUE: 10 or 15 (inaudible).
THE EXAMINER: Of those ten or 15 times, how many times would you guess he accidentally on purpose rubbed against your privates or your penis area?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, well, now, he was -- he was doing that --
THE EXAMINER: All the time.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- all the time. I mean, he would be grabbing at me.
THE EXAMINER: Sure.
********
ME: HE TOSSES IN A LITTLE REFERENCE TO HITTING A KID:
THE EXAMINER: It's hard to say no.
MR. RODRIGUE: I would -- no. I was telling him no.
THE EXAMINER: You don't want to hurt him.
MR. RODRIGUE: No, but I would even --
THE EXAMINER: You don't want to hurt his feelings.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- hit him sometimes, but --
THE EXAMINER: I'm sorry?
MR. RODRIGUE: I even hit him sometimes.
***********
ME: YOU COULD CALL THIS THE DENIAL DIALOGUES
THE EXAMINER: But I mean, but he let the bathrobe go so you could see him.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, not really that much.
THE EXAMINER: Just a couple times?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah, and, uh --
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- that was not exciting to me or anything like that.
THE EXAMINER: How much of John doe's statements are true and how many are not true? Let's get down to that. How many times did he actually, in your opinion, you know he screwed you? More than five? More than 10?
*****************
ME: "SCREW" IS THE WORD RODRIGUE USES THROUGHOUT IN REFERENCE TO WHATEVER HE WAS DOING WITH THE BOYS.
***********************
MR. RODRIGUE: I don't think he screwed me.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Now -- now, he -- he may have tried.
THE EXAMINER: He says 150; how many times do you remember?
MR. RODRIGUE: It could be about five at most.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. He never got behind you.
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. But he tried.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, he might have tried, but I was unaware of it.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Did he ever rub against you when you were standing up where he might conceive that he was screwing you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Uh, yes, that could have happened sometimes there. I think that that would have been out in the open, that is, outside the apartment.
ME: THEY ONLY HAD SEX OUT IN THE OPEN?
MR. RODRIGUE: I -- I do not recall him ever doing it to me. And I know I didn't do it to him.
THE EXAMINER: How do you know that?
MR. RODRIGUE: Because there are times that I wanted to.
THE EXAMINER: Sure you did.
MR. RODRIGUE: But I never even attempted to do it.
THE EXAMINER: Did he place your hand on his --
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: How did it get there?
MR. RODRIGUE: Me grabbing at him because he was fooling around.
**********
ME: IF YOU DIDN'T PUT YOUR HAND THERE, HOW DID IT GET THERE?
THE EXAMINER: Did all this activity take place when he was at your place, most of it?
MR. RODRIGUE: Took place outside.
THE EXAMINER: And in your place.
MR. RODRIGUE: And a little bit in my place.
******
ME: HERE IS THE QUOTE FROM THE EXAMINER REFERENCED IN THE OPENINGspan>
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THE EXAMINER: Did John Doe's mouth ever been in contact with your penis, even for a split second where you pushed him away? Did he do it before he realized what he was doing?
MR. RODRIGUE: I do not know, but I do not think so.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. How would you not know if -- now, what I'm going to say I don't mean to offend you.
MR. RODRIGUE: Okay.
THE EXAMINER: But I'll guarantee you one thing. If somebody's mouth -- if somebody's face was between my legs, there is no way in hell I'd forget it.
*********
ME: APPARENTLY RODRIGUE BEGAN TO BE ATTRACTED TO YOUNG BOYS WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG BOY.
THE EXAMINER: The burden you've been carrying around we talked about.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, I would say that would be when I was 10, 11, or 12 (inaudible).
THE EXAMINER: You first tried feeling --
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: -- the sexual urges activity towards other boys.
MR. RODRIGUE: Boys, yes.
*************
UPCOMING TRIP: TO FIND THE GROWN UPS WHO WERE THE CHOIR BOYS OF CALEXICO, SEE HOW THEY ARE DOING TODAY
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THE EXAMINER: Where were the boys coming from that you were kind of having contact with then?
MR. RODRIGUE: I would say that was from Calexico.
THE EXAMINER: Oh, okay, the boys down in Calexico?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Did they just come by the rectory --
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: -- sometimes?
MR. RODRIGUE: Uh-huh.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. You guys engaged in sexual activity --
MR. RODRIGUE: Yes.
***********
ME: AGAIN THE BOYS ALWAYS THROWING THEMSELVES AT THE GROWNUP WANTING SEX. . .
THE EXAMINER: Okay. How many of those boys did you get involved with that were -- where they were wanting to be next to you, wanting to be close to you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Uh, I don't know, three or four.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. How old were they about?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, they were 12 to 14 (inaudible).
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Did they want to screw you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, there were -- there were a couple that did.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Okay, were they successful?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah. But it was something that I never did.
THE EXAMINER: Didn't you?
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: I mean they just did you.
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
*****
ME: THE PEDOPHILE PRIEST IS TOO MORAL TO GIVE THE BOY MONEY FOR DRUGS
***********
THE EXAMINER: He wanted money for drugs?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah. And I refused. I says, "Sorry."
THE EXAMINER: Yeah. Yeah.
MR. RODRIGUE: "I can't destroy your life."
Me Again: Did not want to spoil his life?!?!?!
**********
MR. RODRIGUE: And so I gave him a ride over to somebody's house.
THE EXAMINER: Uh-huh.
MR. RODRIGUE: And which was, oh, I'd say about a mile away, I don't know.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: But I think it had something to do with drugs. See, I didn't know this guy at all.
THE EXAMINER: Uh-huh.
MR. RODRIGUE: Complete stranger (inaudible).
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: But then a policeman came up and asked me, he says --
THE EXAMINER: What'd he say?
MR. RODRIGUE: Um, it was, uh, "Are you giving this guy counseling or something?" I says, "Well, yeah."
THE EXAMINER: How did he know you were a priest?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, he knew I was a priest --
ME:THEY MUST HAVE BEEN SITTING IN THE CAR FOR QUITE A WHILE FOR THE COP TO ASK THAT.
********
ME: RODRIGUE BABBLES ON, I THINK HE MAY BE TAKING NIPS OF WHISKY DURING BATHROOM BREAKS AS IT STARTS TO NOT MAKE SENSE:
***********
MR. RODRIGUE: --Begging for a little bit of attention or something like that, you know.
THE EXAMINER: He wanted to have sex, too, with you.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, he did offer. He says, "Oh, why don't you take my picture here?"
THE EXAMINER: Did he?
MR. RODRIGUE: Naked of course. Actually, that was interesting because even in those days -- I'd say 1978 I stopped taking pictures basically.
THE EXAMINER: Before then you did?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: You destroyed the pictures you did take?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
******
ME: EEK ?? HE WAS TAKING PICTURES TOO?
**********
THE EXAMINER: Okay. When was the last time you look
pictures of you and any of these, what, 8-, 9-, 10,- 11-, 12-, 13-, 14-year-olds that you engaged in (inaudible)?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, I'd say that about in '69.
THE EXAMINER: '69 you quit? Or '79?
MR. RODRIGUE: '69.
THE EXAMINER: How long had you known him before he first started coming on to you? Long time or almost right away?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, it seemed about five minutes.
THE EXAMINER: Really? He started coming on right away?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
THE EXAMINER: When was the first time he mentioned he wanted to have sex with you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Probably the second time.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Nothing -- I mean, he was that way practically with anybody.
************
ME; NOW IT’S AN OVER SEXED 14 YEAR OLD: BUT HE DOES THAT WITH ‘PRACTICALLY ANYBODY’
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THE EXAMINER: How did he say it, just that way? "Please have sex with me?"
MR. RODRIGUE: "Come on. I'm gay. Let's have sex." Just like that.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Just real quick and up --
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: I mean, it's shocking. I mean, I didn't -- I mean I -- all of a sudden --
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Sure. Sure.
MR. RODRIGUE: You know, I mean, it's important news.
************
ME: SO RODRIGUE IS SHOCKED THAT THE BOY IS GAY, NOT SHOCKED THAT A PEDOPHILE IS ABOUT TO SCREW HIM
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EXAMINER: How many times do you remember him coming on to you like that?
MR. RODRIGUE: From the back? I honestly don't remember any times.
THE EXAMINER: Then why did you tell me it was only two times? See what I'm saying?
**************
THE EXAMINER: So you've had these sexual feelings towards boys between 8 and, what, 12, 14?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Since you've been -- what?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, I'd say the first -- well, actually probably even before I was ten years old.
THE EXAMINER: I understand that. When -- how old were you when you first admitted it to yourself?
MR. RODRIGUE: 40.
THE EXAMINER: Really? What do you think caused you to finally admit it to yourself?
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, when I went through that psychological test there back in (inaudible) outside of Boston area. I really -- when the eyes were opened up.
THE EXAMINER: How old were you then? Or what year was that?
MR. RODRIGUE: Roughly I was 40.
************
FOLLOWING IS THE 5-6 KIDS A YEAR QUOTE:
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THE EXAMINER: Okay. How many -- hard question -- how many -- from the time you became a priest until the time that you stopped actively being a priest, how many boys would you say you had contact with during all that time that you had trouble dealing with? Best guess.
MR. RODRIGUE: Best guess? I would say around five or six per year.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: To be honest with you.
THE EXAMINER: Okay, so how many does that add up to? I don't know what year you became a priest.
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, you're talking about twenty- -- 22 years. So times five.
ME: THERE’S MORE. RIGHT AFTER HE SAYS: ‘SO TIMES FIVE”:
THE EXAMINER: Okay. So of those have you ever sat down and talked to any of those boys?
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Have you ever wanted to sit down and talk to them?
MR. RODRIGUE: I don't know. I don't know what you mean by that question.
************
ME: HE SEEMS CLUELESS THAT THE BOYS NOW ADULTS MIGHT EVEN HAVE PROBLEMS FROM IT. HE JUST SAYS SOMETHING LIKE WHY WOULD “I” WANT TO TALK TO THEM?
********************
MR. RODRIGUE: (Inaudible) most of it in denial.
THE EXAMINER: Denial.
MR. RODRIGUE: On my part.
THE EXAMINER: Sure. Sure. I understand that. Most of them your altar boys and stuff?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Did any of the parents ever approach you and think something was going on?
MR. RODRIGUE: No. Maybe in '79.
THE EXAMINER: How many times did you complete what he had started by masturbating? Embarrassing as it may be.
MR. RODRIGUE: It's interesting because I don't think I ever did.
THE EXAMINER: Time out.
MR. RODRIGUE: Hold it. Now hold it. I never did complete a masturbation on my part. I mean, there have been -- there were a couple times I wanted to in private, I wanted to, but I couldn't.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: That's the only way I can answer that question.
THE EXAMINER: Did he ever masturbate you to the point where you couldn't help it anymore?
MR. RODRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: Never happened.
MR. RIDRIGUE: No.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: He actually never completed any masturbate- -- he tried a couple times, yes.
THE EXAMINER: Sure. Sure.
MR. RODRIGUE: But he never completed any masturbation.
THE EXAMINER: Okay.
MR. RODRIGUE: Now --
THE EXAMINER: Do you understand how abnormal that is?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yes.
THE EXAMINER: For people to engage in sexual arousal, get to that point, and then walk away and --
MR. RODRIGUE: Well, see, I'll --
THE EXAMINER: It doesn't make sense.
MR. RODRIGUE: -- I'll tell you it doesn't make sense to me either.
***************
IT’S ALMOST A COMEDY SCRIPT
*******************
THE EXAMINER: Did you ever tell him (the psychiatrist) how strongly attracted to boys between 8 and 14 that you were, 8 and 12, you said?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
THE EXAMINER: You did tell him?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah. Because that's the big basic thing. First of all, we had to break down inhibitions to -- to speak freely, you know. And next -- that was the big thing.
THE EXAMINER: Did you ever tell him how many boys lives you touched?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Hm? You did?
MR. RODRIGUE: Oh, yeah.
THE EXAMINER: While you were a priest?
MR. RODRIGUE: Yeah.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. What didn't you tell him?
MR. RODRIGUE: I didn't tell him?
THE EXAMINER: Uh-huh.
MR. RODRIGUE: I didn't tell him a denial of my -- of -- of the -- of the -- having this eight-year-old boy -- or nine-year-old boy there. I never denied that to him at all.
THE EXAMINER: Why are you denying it to me?
MR. RODRIGUE: Because it's time I felt the truth should come out. That's all.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Where were you arrested for that nine-year-old?
MR. RODRIGUE: Uh, which one are we talking about? The one back in '79?
**************
ME: NOW WHICH NINE YEAR OLD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
****************
THE EXAMINER: You see--
MR. RODRIGUE: No. See,. Because that I had oral sex with a nine-year-old is true. This person, no, it is not true. See, that's all I'm saying.
THE EXAMINER: Explain to me how -- what nine-year-old boy did you have oral sex with?
MR. RODRIGUE: Somebody else.
THE EXAMINER: That was in your parish? Your altar boy?
MR. RODRIGUE: No. He wasn't an altar boy.
THE EXAMINER: Okay. Who was he to you?
MR. RODRIGUE: Just someone that I met. . .
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end of excerpts from may 1997 lie detector test of pedophile priest anthony edward rodrigue
==================
Just another priest admitting that the Catholic Church let him carry out his obsessions, damaging lives of probably hundreds of Southern California boys now men.
Hey they need priests, don’t they?
Onward
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